ASTRODATABANK – A VALUABLE FREE TOOL FOR EVERYONE

Alois Treindl in conversation with the Meridian magazine

Meridian (M): I'm glad you found time for our conversation.

Alois Treindl (AT): I am also pleased that there is interest in the Astrodatabank. On the one hand, the database runs as a sideline for us. On the other hand, it is labor-intensive, and, at the same time, people take it for granted as a service.

M: Perhaps that will change somewhat if we look behind the scenes. Let's start at the very beginning and look at the history. It all started with Lois Rodden.

AT: Lois Rodden belonged to a generation of data collectors who emerged during the 1980s with the general rise of astrology. There were already several dedicated data collectors from the 1970s onwards. You could say that Lois Rodden was at the forefront of this.

M: What do you mean by that?

Astro-Databank goes online, 12.03.2009, 20:15 MET, 19:15 UT, Zürich/CH, 47n23, 8e32, Source: Astrodatabank, AA

AT: Unlike many others, she proceeded in a very professional manner. For example, she was one of the few, perhaps even the only one, to insist on source reliability, meaning she always stated where she got the birth data from. She also invented the Rodden rating, which she used to classify the seriousness of a data statement. She initially published her data collections as books. Others did the same. Other data collectors included Ed Steinbrecher from the USA, Gracia Bordoni from Italy, Sy Scholfield from Australia, Michel Gauquelin and his wife Françoise Schneider-Gauquelin from France, Didier Geslain, also from France, and Hans-Hinrich Taeger from Germany. At the time, there was some competition between them, as everyone wanted to sell their data collection as a book or later as a data floppy disk. Once, it must have been in the late 1980s or early 1990s, there was a meeting of these collectors in England. But I don't know what they discussed there.

M: Were you already involved in collecting horoscope data back then?

AT: No, I had nothing to do with it back then.

M: What happened next?

Lois Rodden

AT: Lois Rodden teamed up with computer scientist Mark McDonough in the 1990s. Together, they founded the company "Astrodatabank" to establish and market the data collection as Windows software. In addition to the mere collection, there was already the possibility to search for horoscopes according to various criteria. For example, who has Neptune in the 10th house? That was already very differentiated. In the late 1990s, however, Lois fell ill with cancer. The last time I saw her was at the United Astrology Conference (UAC) in 2002, where she won the UAC Lifetime Achievement Award. She passed away in 2003.

I met Mark McDonough a few years later and was already interested in publishing the data Lois had collected on our website, but Mark didn't want to. Mark was still pursuing commercial interests at that time.

I always thought the database was an essential resource for the astrological community.

M: Were there so many buyers for the software?

AT: That was my view even back then: there was only a minuscule customer base. First and foremost, you need the data for research purposes. But how many people are already doing astrological research? There are very few. Mark seemed to realize this and eventually sold Astrodatabank to Richard Smoot, who was active in the International Society for Astrological Research (ISAR). However, the cost of maintaining it was enormous. Smoot was not a computer scientist. Indian companies had long provided support, which consumed a high monthly salary. In 2008, I heard that Astrodatabank was on the verge of bankruptcy. But it was important to me that the database should not be allowed to die. I had always considered it an invaluable resource for the astrological community. Eventually, Richard and I agreed, and I could buy Astrodatabank.

M: Did you know then what you wanted to do with the data?

AT: Yes, I had already made it clear in the purchase contract that we wanted to make the data available to the public free of charge. Previously, the software package cost around 400 dollars, but the market was already exhausted. I never intended to sell software. I just wanted to use the data collection as an adaptation for our website so that it would be more widely available to people interested in astrology worldwide. We then transferred the data into Wiki format.

We've already had a few knocks for putting someone's data on the net.

M: Were you able to transfer all the data?

AT: In principle, yes, but we did not publish all the data directly. There were a few thousand horoscope data marked as "private." That was client data, for example, for which we didn't know whether the clients had even given their consent to publication. We didn't want to make them public.

Lois Rodden, 22.05.1928, 00:27 MST, 07:27 UT, Lang, Saskatchewan (CAN), 49n56, 104w23, Source: Astrodatabank, AA

M: If this data was already in the software package, it suggests that the data collectors were not very privacy-conscious.

AT: That's right. The focus was: The data has to get out! Of course, this results in some conflict, which also keeps us busy. We've already had a few knocks for putting someone's data on the net. We are lucky that we can usually rely on evident, traceable sources. As soon as birth data is published, we reserve the right to use it. Birth data, in itself, is not information worthy of protection; well - of course, you could also discuss that.

M: As data protection is increasingly in focus. It seems to have become more challenging to get hold of solid birth data. I remember that back in the 1980s and 1990s, I could write to a registry office, and they would hand over the details of celebrities for a small fee. That's no longer possible today.

AT: Absolutely. It also varies from country to country. In France, for example, it's very straightforward: anyone can order a birth certificate for anyone. If I know when and where a French person was born, I can request a birth certificate from the local authority there and then receive it in the post, free of charge. There are few countries where data collection is that easy. In Scotland, it is still easy; you have to go to the administration, and you can see everything; the same applies in Belgium. In the USA, it depends on the state. In a few states, you can request access, but then, you are not allowed to take photos, only to copy them. In other US states, it's like in Germany: you have virtually no chance of accessing data.

M: I have the impression that there is significantly less horoscope data on young celebrities than on the stars of the past.

AT: Well, a trend reversal has just occurred. There are more and more social media stars who are talking publicly about their horoscope. Astrology is very much back in vogue. The Astrodata team often receives Twitter or Instagram screenshots of new celebrities, influencers, YouTubers, and so on, talking about their horoscope. It is usually limited to individual horoscope factors, such as the Sun, Moon, and Ascendant in the signs. We rarely find out the time of birth. So, with the generation of social media stars, things have gotten a little better for data collectors.

On social media, there are more and more social media stars who talk publicly about their horoscope. Astrology is very much back in vogue.

M: The topic of data protection will continue to occupy us all.

AT: If someone publishes something about themselves on Twitter or elsewhere, that's one thing. But it can be a tricky area. We had a case of a French mass murderer who killed his family with an axe over 30 years ago. His horoscope data was in Astrodatabank, including the data of the murdered family members. The man was convicted and imprisoned, and after his release, he made it his mission to ban his story from the Internet. He had written to us saying that we had to delete it and, in the case of an axe murderer who lives just a four-hour drive away from us, we preferred to agree with him and delete his data completely. But in principle, we try to preserve the data. That was an exception. However, we are also cautious regarding the children of celebrities, for example. A delicate touch is required here.

M: Let's go back to the history for a moment: you finally integrated the Astrodatabank on your website and published it at a particular moment. Of course, I took a look at the associated horoscope and had the impression that it was no coincidence. For example, the horoscope contains a super-exact Sun-Uranus conjunction. Have you calculated an election to find a good time to put the database online?

AT: My attitude is that you should treat it like a birth. You don't want to force anything. It happens at the right time. When the child is ready to come out, then it comes out. And the same applies to projects. It's my mentality. It's different when it comes to signing a contract. I've already drawn up election horoscopes for that. But when it comes to projects, I trust that it will be the right time. We've already put so much online with Mercury retrograde; nothing has gone wrong, and we could have avoided it with an election. As for the horoscope you mentioned, I'll have to look in the memos from back then - I can't remember right now.

(Looks it up.)

Yes, I did. I planned for Astrodatabank to go online at 8:15 p.m. That's what it ended up being. So we thought of something. Unfortunately, I can't remember what.

Abb. 1: Astrodatabank goes online, 12.03.2009, 20:15 MET, 19:15 UT, Zürich/CH, 47n23, 8e32, Source: Alois Treindl, www.astro.com/astro-databank/Astro-Databank:About

M: It looks a bit like an election. Also, because, among other things, the Moon is directly on the Ascendant.

AT: That fits: we are presenting something for the people. That may well be the case.

M: We'll also print the publication chart. Perhaps our readers will find even more exciting details in it. Another question: I noticed you often use the first person plural "we" in our conversation.

AT: Astro.com has employees, and we have also appointed people to the Astrodatabank who, for example, have transferred the data from the Rodden software to our system. We also need people to maintain the data, create new records, make corrections, etc. Today, we have a small community of partly voluntary and partly paid idealists who work as editors and data collectors for the Astrodatabank. We are also constantly adding new data. For example, we have bought and incorporated the data sets from Hans-Hinrich Taeger or Gracia Bordoni, etc.

You can currently call up around 65,000 horoscope data sets for people and many other data sets, for example, for events or countries. In total, we are talking about roughly 77,700 data sets.

M: How much horoscope data can people currently find on your website?

AT: Since we took over the Rodden data, we have at least doubled the number. You can currently call up around 65,000 horoscope data sets for people and many other data sets, for example, for events or countries. In total, we are talking about roughly 77,700 data records.

M: How do I find what I'm looking for in this mass of data? You can search for celebrities, but can you also search for constellations?

AT: Yes, you can. We have our research tool for this. You can search for many criteria and combine them. If you are a registered user, you can select six different criteria. For example, you can search for singers born between 1900 and 1950 with Venus in Taurus in the 7th house and an Aries Moon. These are complex patterns.

M: Is this used a lot by users?

AT: I don't know that at all. We don't collect any user data in this regard. My principle is not to compile statistics unless you know what you want to do and find out with the data. Otherwise, you spend an enormous amount of time on statistical evaluations that you may not even need. What we can say: The research tool works well. One of my employees worked on it for six months.

M: So you don't know how many people per day use the Astrodatabank?

AT: Statistics are difficult to obtain, only from the server log files. The MediaWiki software doesn't do statistics, and we haven't installed a corresponding extension. Explicit page views of individual Astrodatabank pages, without search queries, without category queries, and so on, are 70,000 to 100,000 per day. But that includes crawlers and bots, which I estimate at two-thirds.

M: We've looked a lot at the history, but what about the future? How will the Astrodatabank continue?

Alois Treindl

AT: You don't know how long a company like mine will exist. Its basis is a great deal of idealism and personal commitment. If it falls into other hands at some point, then other guidelines may dominate. If someone wants to buy Astrodienst, they would have to pay a lot of money, which, of course, they would then have to earn back. Then, things like the database, which is for the general public's enjoyment, might fall by the wayside at some point. That's an enormous risk. What happens to these archives is a dilemma. Valuable collections have already disappeared: For example, the collection of Müller, a researcher in Germany, who had reproduced the Gauquelin data with birth register excerpts and all the trimmings. When we asked his widow to give us the archive after his death, she had already thrown everything in the bin. Or Hans-Hinrich Taeger: he destroyed his entire collection during a personal crisis shortly before his death, an enormous loss.

M: Do you know how to prevent such a loss from happening to Astrodatabank? It would be terrible if all the data disappeared.

AT: We were approached last year by ISAR, who would like to take over the Astrodatabank. But that is complicated in terms of IT. The Astrodienst site has grown over a long period, and we use open-source and specially developed programs linked to each other. Just keeping this running is a challenge. It would be nice if Astrodatabank would fall into the hands of an organization where the archive has a perspective. But it's not easy. It needs resources, experts, and commitment. The Rodden database had a lifespan of about ten years before it would have gone bankrupt. In our case, the project has been alive for longer, but nobody knows how long. After all, the data is packaged and can be unpacked elsewhere at any time. But it takes more than just having the data lying around somewhere. It takes man- and womanpower to keep it alive. It needs an Aquarian spirit.

I have three planets in Aquarius and six in Air; that's a driving force behind my work.

M: You certainly have an Aquarian spirit!

AT: I have three planets in Aquarius and six in Air; that is a driving force of my work. I'm a Pisces with a Taurus Ascendant, so people often don't think I'm an Air person, but the Air side comes out in activities like this.

M: Well described. A project like this does need constant care to stay up to date - an Aquarian spirit is undoubtedly an advantage. I have also discovered this elsewhere on your site. You don't just make a modern distinction between male and female in the personal horoscopes but also have the gender criteria unknown for indeterminate or mixed, which includes non-binary people or trans people.

AT: That has always existed. Lois Rodden already introduced that.

Alois Treindl, 07.03.1950, 09:15 MET, 08:15 UT, Regensburg/D, 49n01, 12e06, Source: Astrodatabank, AA

M: Now I'm surprised. I thought that was a new achievement.

AT: No, that comes from Lois Rodden. The mixed category came about because she had also included multiple births. So, if a woman had several children of different genders, then these charts were labeled as mixed gender. Regardless of this, Lois was always very tolerant and had no reservations or problems with homosexuals or people who would call themselves queer today. What she did have was a sharp pen.

M: Where was this used?

AT: There is a biographical summary for each data set. In the past, there was no Wikipedia, which means that most of these biographies in the Astrodatabank were written by Lois Rodden herself. She could use her sharp pen on people she didn't like and formulate the biographies accordingly. That was the case with pop icon Madonna, for example. We have sometimes received nasty letters from fans complaining about how we dare to spread such a negative or one-sided image of someone. But things have changed in the meantime. Today, we take the biographies from Wikipedia. You can do that if you mark it accordingly and link to it.

M: It gives me great pleasure to talk to you. Nevertheless, we must slowly come to an end. But I would like to know one more thing: If someone now feels like supporting Astrodatabank, what can they do?

AT: Collect data! First and foremost, collect data. Please provide the source. For example, we ask for a screenshot or a link to a YouTube movie. Please provide the exact minutes when of the mentioning of horoscope data. We receive such screenshots time and again, often from fans. A fan follows their idol on Instagram, and this star then reports on the position of the Moon in their horoscope, for example. As a fan, you can go one step further: write to this person and ask in a friendly manner if you can have their birth data. There's nothing shameful about it. If you do this mindfully, nothing terrible will happen. At best, you will get a helpful answer.

M: You can find helpful data on the Astrodatabank. Alois, thank you for this informative interview.

AT: Thank you.

Holger A. L. Faß conducted the interview.
You can find all articles by Holger A. L. Faß in the digital Meridian archive via this link: https://sternwerkstatt.de/autor/fass/

Original article from www.meridian-magazin.de
This article appeared in Meridian issue 2023/6 with the main topic "Astrology and Art Painting."

To the overview of all MERIDIAN articles at Astrodienst (in German)